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The basic rule of a conservative value is that every one should pay for himself, and there is no free lunch in the world. In Canada the socialist government rob rich people and bribe poor so they can keep this ass

cerboros(Once Upon Great King)

tight on the office chairs and enrich themselves and friends. That is where the problem is.

Some chinese went so far to claim that "THEY IMMIGRATE BECAUSE THEIR PARENT CAN IMMIGRATE." What a joke behind.

Some poeple say that government waste money on other social programs. Yes that is very true. But you can not ask government to give your money for your own purpose based on that. Just like government has the power to rob the rich, you do not posses that power.

The Canada government and social system are the root of these problems. It is very reasonable to ask the children, if they want bring their parents in, pay for all the medical expenses. The responsible for the old parents' living should lie in the Chinese government.

(#2179371@0)
Last Updated: 2005-3-14

Replies, comments and Discussions:

枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / 也谈父母移民对国家利益的影响。 -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-14 {1257} (#2178734@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛既然一些人口口声声要我们站在国家利益的一边，从大局出发， OK，那么，让我们暂时抛开个人私利和亲情不谈，就谈一谈父母移民对加拿大这个国家的好的影响。
1。促进消费。父母移民过来后，衣食住行，每一项开支都要钱。一房要换两房了，租房可能考虑买房了，作为子女不用每年抽时间和精力回国探访老人，这些人力物力省下来可以带全家好好逛逛加拿大，无形中提高了加拿大境内消费，带动了经济。
2。增加税收。父母移民过来了，多少可以帮到有小孩的家庭，那么夫妻都工作的可能就会大胆提高，这样，一个家庭每年交给政府的税也会随之提高。
3。提高人口出生率。父母过来后，因为有了帮手，部分家庭可能会考虑多生一个孩子，将来国家就有多一份税收。
4。稳定家庭。父母移民过来了，大部分家庭就不大会折腾了，因为加拿大，尤其是多伦多还是比较适合中国老人居住的。否则，没有老人在，一些有闯劲的说不定入了籍后就到其它国家工作定居了，等老了再回来，恐怕加拿大更吃不消。
5。稳定移民需求。当初移民，我想不少人是考虑到加拿大是个老有所养的国家，给人安全感，值得我们放弃国内多年经营的一切投奔而来。如今政府采取拖，骗的手段，多多少少会有人寒了心，尤其是一些独生子女，更会慎重考虑，到底要不要移这个民。

当然，因为父母移民的数量不多，这些影响可能不大，但我认为都是积极的影响。这些仅是我个人的想法，我没有什么数据来证明。可我总觉得这些才是大头，比医疗方面的负面影响要重要的多，从长远来讲。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

同意！！！！拖延父母团聚除了给航空公司做贡献，其他理由都是BT和没人性的。 -goffy(goffy); 2005-3-14 (#2178801@0)
可惜游行的时候没人说这些，光顾着shame on you了 -zhu8jie(zhu8jie); 2005-3-14 (#2179028@0)

请愿书上有的，喊口号标语都是简单的话，这么复杂的东西弄上去不容易看/听吧 -vega_lee(天津包子-就不改); 2005-3-14 (#2179084@0)

但出发点不一样，一个是从个人感情和利益出发，一个是以社会和国家的利益出发，起到的效果是不一样的。 -zhu8jie(zhu8jie); 2005-3-14 (#2179226@0)

这逻辑也拿出来秀.也幸亏当时没想起来.#2179747 -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 (#2181867@0)

其实GOV目前的这种做法非常短视. 那我们家来说, 已是公民, 美国绿卡也有了. 如不是有父母移民这诱惑, 我们早就申请非税务居民了. -lile601(lile601); 2005-3-14 {212} (#2179116@0)
我们至今没买房子, 当然父母移民成了, 肯定要买的. 照现在这样子, 肯定走人, 到老了再回来吃大家拿.
另外, 耗5-6年成美国公民, 再申请父母移民, 也用不了10 年.其实大多数人只是想和父母住在一起, 那中看不中用的医保, 谁稀罕.

How many people are like you (have US green card)? <1%?? -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2005-3-14 (#2179120@0)

脚在自己的身上, 要走还不容易. 有多少人拿了公民后回国发展了? -lile601(lile601); 2005-3-14 (#2179129@0)

still NOT that many... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2005-3-14 (#2179138@0)
Besides, if I go back to China to live for 30 years to work, there is NO way I will come back to Canada after I retire... No friends, no family, no social lives, no circle... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2005-3-14 (#2179144@0)

not true, I don't think living in canada is not so pitiful as you said for old people knowing English, besides people have differnet expectation, some of them may be easier got satisfied with what they are having. -lisong(marlis); 2005-3-14 (#2179428@0)

Well, I LOVE to travel back to Canada when I retire but I still enjoy my circles where I've been living there for 20 to 30 years right before retirement. And I believe most people would agree... -jeffrey815(Smartiecat); 2005-3-14 (#2179766@0)

You did not pay much Canadian tax . -calgarian(ThanksFlames); 2005-3-14 {305} (#2179340@0)
You did not make to US by yourself from China. So you used Canada. Now most of your tax paid to the the States.

The only reason you did not cut Canada lose just because you want to use it again by bring your parents over and let Canadia tax payers support them.

Go wherever you want. Who needs you.

do you know US and Canada has tax treatment? they can share persion plan whatever. ....knowing the system well before point your finger to others. -lile601(lile601); 2005-3-14 (#2179782@0)

There is no tax treaty on income tax between Canada and US -calgarian(ThanksFlames); 2005-3-15 {631} (#2181846@0)
The only tready close to it is on social credits.

You pay US income tax and pay the remaining amout to Canada if Canadian tax is higher then US tax. The amount is less than 10% of the tax paid to US.

As soon as your parents come over, you will put them into the government subsidized housing and let Canadian taxpayers pick up the their medical bills. After your sponsorship is approved, you probably then will declare your non tax residence status and pay no tax to Canada.

Do not mistake kindness for weakness. I somehow believe you would not be able to enjoy the full benefit if you do come back for your retirement.

唉，不知道说啥好。现在的焦点明明是父母移民是移民政策之一，只是进度太慢，非要提什么父母移民不增加医疗系统负担/促进加拿大经济云云，明显是自己倒退一步承认“也许不应该有父母移民，但是其实blahblah”。 -bingle(bingle); 2005-3-14 (#2179119@0)
The basic rule of a conservative value is that every one should pay for himself, and there is no free lunch in the world. In Canada the socialist government rob rich people and bribe poor so they can keep this ass -cerboros(Once Upon Great King); 2005-3-14 {745} (#2179371@0)
tight on the office chairs and enrich themselves and friends. That is where the problem is.

Some chinese went so far to claim that "THEY IMMIGRATE BECAUSE THEIR PARENT CAN IMMIGRATE." What a joke behind.

Some poeple say that government waste money on other social programs. Yes that is very true. But you can not ask government to give your money for your own purpose based on that. Just like government has the power to rob the rich, you do not posses that power.

The Canada government and social system are the root of these problems. It is very reasonable to ask the children, if they want bring their parents in, pay for all the medical expenses. The responsible for the old parents' living should lie in the Chinese government.
加拿大对难民倒是很慷慨的。 -apple_tree(苹果树); 2005-3-14 (#2179421@0)
原来原贴在这里,对策想好了吗？ -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-14 {1051} (#2179747@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛声明，这是基于抛开亲情人情，仅基于利益的分析，是楼主的前提。不要骂我心狠手黑哈，我好pia~~

所谓资源有限，当局很大程度说的是北京使馆的处理速度（配额）有限。这样如果提高父母移民，在动用一样的政府资源的情况下，挤掉的就是其他移民配额，比如技术移民。我们来比较一下小两口技术移民ab和老两口父母移民CD移民到子女cd家的区别。这样一来耗费的政府资源比较一致，很有可比性。显然用前者替换掉后者的话有如下优越性：

1。促进消费。ab，cd两家就要买两间房，比cdCD家的一间大房贵。
2。增加税收。就算ab两个人都只找到当cd保姆这样的活，也可以帮cd腾出手来多创造收入。
3。提高劳动人口比例（相当于提高人口出生率，并切一步到位）。又来了一批不用培养就能用的孩子。
4。稳定家庭。可以减少很多婆媳纷争。
5。稳定移民需求。让新来的移民一早就知道父母移民不好办，在慎重考虑后再做决策。从而减少将来的误解（从某些人移民加拿大的目的之一就是要将来父母移民有赶而发）。

当然，因为父母移民的数量不多，用技术移民来替换掉这些父母移民的影响可能不大，但我认为都是积极的影响。这些仅是我个人的想法，我没有什么数据来证明。可我总觉得这些才是大头，比医疗方面的正面影响要重要的多，从长远来讲。更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

人家会说团聚移民中很多是假的, 父母可是真的,用假的挤掉真的, 不太好吧. -ebusiness(每天进步多一些); 2005-3-14 (#2179779@0)

没问题的,这次我用的是技术移民,厚厚!这招损多了,看他们如何辩论.居然把自己最有利的武器放了.那就交枪不杀:) -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-14 (#2179979@0)

你说指标给技术移民就给技术移民? 哎呀, 早知道,游行队伍得到您办公室前去示威啊! -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-15 (#2180323@0)

这个可不是我说了算。我就是打个比方，这资源有很多更高效率的用法。 -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 {224} (#2180446@0)
你说父母移民对国家有好处，好啊。就算有吧（没有明显数据对比，不太好说）。不过这也是耗费配额资源的到的吧。这配额资源既然投到哪里都有效，何不找个效率高点的（这两种投法的效率比较还是一目了然的吧）？

浪费资源对经济发展不利哦。

总算你还知道不是由你说了算. -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-15 (#2180562@0)

#2179150 -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-15 (#2180322@0)

看请我说的对比双方 -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 {94} (#2180421@0)
父母没来，可是多了一对技术移民来了。两家技术移民给加拿大带来的经济效益比一家有父母的家庭如何？

不否认大多数技术移民给加国做出了积极的贡献. 但也不排除技术移民来了三年五载找不到工作的也有,吃国家救济的也有, 是否这些移民就得打道回国呀?父母移民倒是十年内不得向国家请求任何福利, 谁占资源多, 还不一定呢. -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-15 {36} (#2180576@0)
凡事没有绝对, 满饭好吃,满话可难将哟!

这个就比较牵强了。总体说移民部很容易例举技术移民对国家的贡献，否则他们的饭碗都难保了。 -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 (#2181217@0)

#2180472 -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-15 (#2181227@0)

哪里来的误导?现在讨论纯经济利益.我看从经济角度看,就应该没有父母移民,把父母移民的配额都给技术移民. -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 (#2181852@0)

既然你是纯经济角度, 那你秀秀有哪些数据可以证明把父母移民的份额给技术移民就一定是最经济的, 好过把难民, 或其他类移民份额给技术移民. 我倒是很想看看. -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-16 (#2182479@0)
另外, 不妨也论证一下给吸毒者提供合法注射屋的经济效益是怎样超过父母移民的? 还有提供无偿国际援助的纯经济利益何在? -frances1007(天上所有的星); 2005-3-16 (#2182481@0)

你这是在误导。父母移民和技术移民没有配额的冲突问题。现在不是说政府的资源不能处理这两种移民，而是政府根本就不处理，但技术移民的数量并没有增加，也就是说，政府的资源被闲置浪费。 -johnnyhatesjazz(Rock and Roll); 2005-3-15 (#2180472@0)

这个我还真没听说，如果你有闲置浪费的具体数据可以秀秀，是说北京有配额，没有用完，但就是不用了？ -tubie(tubie); 2005-3-15 (#2181208@0)

泥父母移民已成，好比泥在车上，喊票员关车门出站。泥在站台上玩命往车上拥挤时可没半点风度呕？？ -zdaniel(daniel); 2005-3-15 {100} (#2181178@0)
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@Portland

The basic rule of a conservative value is that every one should pay for himself, and there is no free lunch in the world. In Canada the socialist government rob rich people and bribe poor so they can keep this ass

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